Valley Courier in the News!!!

[JOE L.]

Yes free trade is fine if the American people are protected or the same rules apply to China and others that apply to us. I'll give ya your ACORN point but you have to admit many on both sides are guilty in this housing mess. The bailout has happened, now let's fix the problems so they don't happen again. Good regulation is not bad.Your ok too Mike, at least your civil.

[Valley Cat]

Joe,

I like debating with you.

>> I believe he will govern from the center and do not believe all this guilt by association stuff. <<

I agree totally with part one, I pray part two will not have a bearing.

>> I hope he surprises you.<<

I pray he does too.

>> Winning by over 8 million votes pretty much nullifies the ACORN so called scam. <<

I was never worried about voter fraud, only the goals ACORN seeks to achieve and the means they use to achieve them. They were the prime force behind giving mortgages to people who could not afford them.

>> [1]  [4] [5] [6] [7] etc. <<

The formatting, at least with links didn't carry over with the copy/paste/

But to opine that "Liberalism emphasizes individual rights and equality of opportunity" and then to support a candidate or platform that punishes those who do take chances and succeed via higher taxes seems a contradiction. But many of the cites you show seem to come from the 13th or 15th centuries and not how liberalism has been exhibited in the 21st century.

>> Liberals argued that economic systems based on free markets are more efficient and generate more prosperity.<<

A free market system allows individuals to achieve wealth and not be inappropriately taxed because of their success.

>> free trade <<

As long as that trade doesn't mean importing goods cheaper than US workers can produce them?

>> Modern liberalism ... rejected ... economic protectionism. <<

So NAFTA is great and trade with China is fine?

Mike

[JOE L.]

Liberalism is a broad class of political philosophies that consider individual liberty to be the most important political goal.[1]

Liberalism emphasizes individual rights and equality of opportunity. Within liberalism there are various streams of thought which compete over the use of the term "liberal" and may propose very different policies, but they are generally united by their support for a number of principles, including freedom of thought and speech, limitations on the power of governments, the rule of law, an individual's right to private property,[2] free markets,[2] and a transparent system of government.[3] All liberals, as well as some adherents of other political ideologies, support some variant of the form of government known as liberal democracy, with open and fair elections, where all citizens have equal rights by law.[4]

Modern liberalism has its roots in the Age of Enlightenment and rejected many foundational assumptions that dominated most earlier theories of government, such as the Divine Right of Kings, hereditary status, established religion, and economic protectionism.[5][6][7]

The first modern liberal state was the United States of America[8], founded on the principle that "all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that to insure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."[9] Pioneers of liberalism such as Adam Smith conceptualized free markets, free trade, invisible hand, spontaneous order, and how they lead to prosperity. Liberals argued that economic systems based on free markets are more efficient and generate more prosperity.[10
Kind of sounds like all of you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JOE L.]

If you followed him like I did you would of known all this stuff and not been afraid. I believe he will govern from the center and do not believe all this guilt by association stuff. I hope he surprises you. Hey people in my own family and many good friends have petty strong views but that doesn't make them traitors,socialists,liberal scum,communists,terrorists, and all the other garbage that Nemesis has spewed on this site.
The christian right did alot of shady things to get Bush elected too, and many churches should of lost their tax exempt status. Winning by over 8 million votes pretty much nullifies the ACORN so called scam. And the system worked and caught most of the phony registrations.

[Valley Cat]

Joe,

I think most of us are hoping and even praying that Obama is a good or even great president. Only a fool would wish him anything but success, at least not until 2012. 

What many of us fear is what has mostly been ignored by a majority of people or kept hushed by the media (you did hear about the stories about Obama Newsweek embargoed until after the election, right?). His associations, loathing toward people who "cling to guns and religion," promises to make sure groups like ACORN have their concerns heard and addressed, the list goes on.

Maybe he will surprise conservatives and put the welfare of the country above the desire to engineer a socialist society. But I honestly do not see it happening.

Mike

[JOE L.]

"In the end what is called for is nothing more ,and nothing less, than what all the world's great religions demand - that we do unto others as we would have them do unto us". (Barack Hussein Obama)
He asked the American people to be fair and just, to be kind and generous, to put prejudice behide them and be one people because that is, not a legal or social imperative, but a moral one. (Anna Quindlen of Newsweek)
WHY DON'T WE ALL TRY THIS FOR A WHILE IT JUST MIGHT WORK!

[thetick]

Hey dogtown, interesting, very interesting. Also whats interesting is the first link you posted has mysteriously lost the video.

Below the second link are alot of links that have stories on how NBC edited the video and also some of the links explain who the Sandlers are. what absolute amazes me is how MacCain did not use these things in his campaign.

[Dogtown]

Here's something about the banks bailout and housing market problems for all to enjoy:

http://guestofaguest.com/finance/theforbidden-snl-economic-bailout-skit/#comment-6377

Hurry, this video clip keeps mysteriously disappearing from various sites, you may have to look around for it in the 'Guest of a Guest' site. Look for 'forbidden SNL economic bailout skit'.

Here's another link, click the second picture down:

http://www.snlbailout.cx/

[JOE L.]

Mike I could meet you down the middle on just about anything, Nemesis no way. Talk to ya's later.

[Valley Cat]

Joe,

Go down to UDF or your favorite store and pick up a pack of Marlboro's!

I don't where you think an employer will not pay a good employee more in order to keep them. Let's take the construction industry. The going wage is about $21/hr. for someone with about 10 years experience. Nemesis is running a company and you another one. There is more than enough work and you both need to retain the good workers you have. So if I am working for Nemesis and he offers me $1/hr. more, but you offer me $1.50 (all else being equal), who am I going to work for?

Plus, I don't understand your antipathy toward Wally World. They employ 1.2 million people, but only import $15 billion in goods a year from China. That's not exactly going to make the Asian country rich - only you call $13.50 per person being rich.

Don't let facts cloud your thinking, Joe. It might turn you into a conservative. 

Mike

[Nemesis]

By the way I believe it's the American consumers who makes your hated walmart and china so rich joe, and I am willing to bet that most of those who shop  there are democrats so I guess you are an equal oppurtunity HATERjoe, since it would only make sense that the rich republicans shop mostly high scale retailers, and mostly the poor down trodden democrats shop lowend wally, and x-marts.

[Nemesis]

Joe actually I mimicked much of what many of the socialist, communists,democrat educators who are your fellow supporters say about our America, they also say much more anti American propaganda which you support, so I thankfully never would have had to serve alongside you in any foxhole, As any Marine worth his salt knows we dig and fight from FIGHTING HOLESeveryone else hides in foxholes,it's apparent Rev.Wright would fit into your foxhole much better because you and him have always been about the hate you seek to ascribe to anyone who doesn't agree with you and your wacky views, and what makes colin powell so great he was an able political general in the army and was berely average in his service in the state department, Swartzkofe was far and above colin powell as a soldier and leader of men,and was the real hero behind the gulf war, it's your hate and avarice that clouds your judjement that has caused you to turn your back on everything good you were taught.

[JOE L.]

Mike are you kidding me,Wal mart who makes China rich, great example. And on your earlier comment about workers, are you saying that at a place like my job where you come in as a laborer and move up the pay scale over time,that based on the employer, a 21 year old kid should make less than a 32 year old man just because that 21 year old is a little weaker,I think that's called discrimination. And if you think most employers are going to be fair and reward work with pay raises instead of putting it in their pocket,then I want some of what your smoking!
Nemesis do you actually read your posts, you are the most Unamerican sounding person on here. Your hatred of fellow Americans is deplorable. Like I have said,Bush was the most popular President a few years back and he blew it, but I guess 75% of the country are anti-american traitors now. You need some help pal. Thank God I will never be in a fox hole with you, because by your own words I would be your enemy. So sad,you could learn a few things from a great American like Colin Powell, he gets it.
ghost
Oh yeah, and I just love how Obama is now the reason for all our problems. It's this kind of division that has caused the problems we have. GIVE THE MAN A CHANCE!

[ghost]

Nemesis Rules!

[Nemesis]

Joe you weren't flattered, they say imatation is the sincerest form of flattery, and I was only doing a half hearted imatation of you. So now it's Ok for the democrats who have gotten us into two world wars and caused the senseless slaughter of millions, and let's not forget it was democrats who committed wholesale criminal acts upon American citizens by depriving them of their freedom and property and sending them to concentration camps, and during the clinton years used Military tanks to crush and burn American citizens and many of their CHILDREN without a shred of evidence at that time  of any criminal wrongdoing,oh yes democrats have a lock on morals, ethics, and faith, based on what if I may ask?. A few posts back you suggested we should get behind your president elect, I wish to inform you I will get behind your president elect exactly 1/2 the amount you were behind President Bush, I can only give that much based upon his demonstrated disrespect to our flag and national anthem and the fact that by all indications he may not even be an American citizen let alone a natural born one, your president stands a better chance of destroying America than uniting Americans, and your kind may have won this battle in this war of ideology,mark my words it's far from over.